We Can Use Our Past Extremes to Our Advantage (Before & After & After & After Pics)

The exploration of our edges and living in extremes can be incredibly valuable. For most who struggle with their relationships with food and their bodies, they’ve inhabited one or both ends of the spectrum. I sure have spent my fair share of time on both ends. 

Swearing not to eat until I felt faint, vomiting, insane amounts of exercise to burn off and earn my food, only eating foods from a specific list, intermittent fasting on top of an already restrictive diet, swearing off all coffee and alcohol, and trying every diet known to man.

Around 2006 - Before my weight was brought to my attention for the first time in high school.

2007 - After several months of restriction, I was LOST. Zero period & absolutely miserable.

Circa 2008. I went up and down several times per year in weight during college, which the highest being 15-20 lbs. more than today.

Binging until I physically couldn’t move and was in so much pain, eating in secrecy, anxiously eating while hungover or drunk after days of restriction, eating chocolate chip cookies every time I passed through the kitchen every Thanksgiving break, stuffing myself with food—didn’t matter the type—and eating well beyond what my body wanted, binge drinking until I blacked out multiple times per week, drinking so much coffee I nearly induced panic attacks, and not moving my body for days.

Post college 2012-2013! Still boozing until I blacked out a couple times per week, eating garbage all weekend, and being incredibly strict during the week.

After returning from three months abroad in Asia in 2014. My body dropped weight without giving it a second thought after I committed to only listening to my body and doing what FELT good and true to me. Major turning point for me.

Last weekend! Letting my intuition guide my choices, which aligns with the season of life I’m in.

Like a pendulum, I swung from one extreme to the other, and looking back, I learned a lot while I inhabited both.

• Restriction and living according to rigid rules are soul-sucking.

• My body doesn’t subscribe to a playbook, as it doesn’t have the same needs day-in and day-out. I need flexibility with how I eat and move.

• Someone providing me with rules about how to live instantly makes me anxious. I hate nothing more than being told what to do, especially arbitrarily.

• Overdoing it on things that are “pleasurable”—like processed foods, booze, significant amounts of food, sitting on my ass for too long—makes those things unenjoyable. In fact, it makes me resentful of them.

• Spending all of my time thinking about food, either how little or how much I’m able to eat, is a substitute for feeling something deeper; a distraction.

• Inhabiting one end of the spectrum for too long will—without a doubt—force me to the other end.

• My body doesn’t feel alive, energetic, or like it’s my own when I’m under or overdoing it with food or exercise.

• It’s nearly impossible to overdo it with too little or too much when I’m present. Disconnection—both mind and body—is necessary for us to live in extremes.

• I’m most myself energetically, physically, emotionally, and mentally when I’m balancing pleasure and discipline, and these two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

• Going to extremes on rare occasions can be nourishing for the soul, although rarely for the body. It’s OK to make this sacrifice when I’m actively choosing this, and the choice is coming from a present, centered, and grounded place. I.e. I’m not using it as a distraction.

This certainly isn’t an exhaustive list, and I wouldn’t have been able to discover these valuable nuggets of information without exploring the edges of extreme behaviors and states of being. 

Does everyone need extremes to live in balance? No. But if you have a personality type similar to mine, where you “have to touch the stove to know it’s hot”, as my dad used to say to describe me, then it may be best to view these experiences with gratitude.

They teach us our limits, and they allow us to know ourselves on a much deeper level. The facilitate our growth, and they put us on the fast track to self-discovery.

This is all contingent upon us being ready to accept the lessons by establishing a foundation of self-worth and respect, of course, otherwise the motivation to cease the cycle of self-harm won’t exist.

However, sometimes the birth of this foundation is derived from hitting rock bottom. From being so obsessed and controlled by food and our inner demons that we have no other choice but to make changes.

Regardless of where you are in your journey, don’t be afraid to reframe your “negative” experiences and use them to your advantage. Make a list of everything you learned, the things you’ll no longer tolerate, and how those moments will benefit you going forward.

Perspective is a magical thing, and the lens through which we’re viewing ourselves, our past, and our future is everything. How can you use your past to inform your present and future?

Never Miss a Monday Workout? I Call Bullsh*t

I used to be ALL about the sentiment of this slogan, but this didn’t just apply to Mondays. I was militant about my workout regimen, and never once did I stop, sit with my body, do a fully body scan, and ask what would be best for her.

Nope. Sick, injured, run-down, stressed—none of it mattered.

I would anxiously think about my workout for the entirety of the day if I was planning to complete it in the afternoon (often the case), and I quickly learned how much I enjoyed morning workouts, as my mind was then free for the remainder of the day to think about other things.

It never occurred to me that I wasn’t actually happy in this pursuit, and I certainly didn’t consider the health of my mind or body during this time.

I was so far down the rabbit hole of hustling for a sense of worthiness—either through body composition changes or pushing through an intense workout—that I didn’t know which way was up.

This behavior encapsulates the peak of my obsession with exercise and controlling my body, but I continued to move through many other iterations as I progressed towards healing.

Not All In, but Still Too Much

Just three years ago, I was still convinced that as long as I was taking two full rest days, then it was impossible to be behaving in a neurotic or disconnected fashion. Note that these were primarily CrossFit workouts.

This frequency can certainly work well for some, and it’s largely dependent on a variety of factors—sleep, stress, nutrition, intensity and duration of activity—but it didn’t work for me. The fact that I was actually taking rest days didn’t mean shit to my body, as it was still stressed to the nines.  

I was allowing my strictly disciplined mind call all the shots and was greatly disconnected from my body.

My ego (or monkey brain) continued to play puppet master, and my body, mind, and soul were paying a serious price.

We can argue the nuances of different personality types, various life circumstances, and different goals until we’re blue in the face, but the fact remains that there are still MANY good reasons to miss a Monday. Or any planned workout, for that matter.  

• Feeling physically run down due to emotional or mental stress

• Illness or imbalances (such as hormonal), chronic or acute

• Lack of adequate fuel, so it will only serve as an additional stressor

• Injury in various degrees and forms

• PMS

• A general lack of downtime and rest (i.e. living in masculine energy)

• Going to happy hour instead

• Simply not wanting to

Some of these can be labeled as excuses, and depending on the context, they very well may be. We are the only ones who hold the answers for ourselves.

However, for those of us who are perfectionists at heart (recovering or otherwise), who often thrive in the masculine energy of constant productivity, who function with high levels of discipline, and who receive great pleasure from intense physical activity and success, these are anything but excuses.

These are legitimate, life-giving reasons that may serve us far more from a health perspective than an additional workout ever will.

Before you give credence to another #nevermissamonday social media post and throw yourself into a shame spiral for not being disciplined, hard-core, or productive enough, sit with your body and ask her what would be best for her.

Our bodies hold greater wisdom than we often give them credit for, and through this stillness, we’re able to tune into the needs of body and soul.

 Our habits and mindset related to exercise are the perfect opportunity to practice establishing and deepening this relationship.

You don't have to pursue weight loss right now

I love everything about the Fall and Winter seasons, which means taking full advantage of all festivities and everything they have to offer! As long as I'm feeling physically, mentally, and emotionally balanced, then I'm good.

The fall is almost upon us, and with this time of year comes football, holidays, travel, and festive gatherings. Essentially, really good food and booze start to roll in, and there are often plenty of reasons for us to celebrate.

This isn’t to say the Summer season isn’t filled with the same, but people tend to be more conscious of their choices due to the clothing attire accompanying the season. The colder months usher in heavier food (and hopefully red wine), and I’m allll about it!

Many of the women I work with are beginning to fret about the upcoming seasons.

• “I love Fall and Winter foods, and I tend to eat more of them.”
• “Football season is my favorite, and I love to eat the snacks and drink the beer.”
• “I really enjoy my wine nights in the Winter.”
• “I bake so many seasonal treats during this time of the year, and I really want to enjoy them.”
• “Holiday parties are my favorite!”

To anyone not stressing about their food choices or their weight, these statements seems innocent enough. All of these statements should be celebrated, right?

To the chronic dieter or food obsessed, these are relayed with a sense of stress and panic. Wanting to enjoy the season to the fullest is the ultimate source of internal conflict—

I want to change my body, but I also want to live my life!

I’m here to tell you that you don’t have to pursue weight loss right now. You can actually take a break—permanently or temporarily—from pursuing body changes.

For many, living in a state of constantly thinking about diet manipulation is the norm, so to consider actually living life and thinking about other things is absurd. But there are certainly some benefits.

• Eating more food will allow your body to reset hormonally if you’ve been living in a chronic deficit.
• You can crush your workouts with the extra fuel.
• You may actually find that the weight loss you’re so desperately seeking isn’t what you really want—it’s giving yourself permission to actually live your life.
• You get to experience everything the season has to offer to the fullest. 
• You’ll give yourself the opportunity to enjoy your favorite foods and booze in a way that aligns with your physical well-being—not an aesthetic goal. This means honoring a balance between enjoyment and nourishment. Essentially, this is an opportunity to practice.
• You can utilize this time to get crystal clear regarding your priorities. If you find that enjoying the season is more of a priority than changing your body, then that’s extremely valuable information.

That last point is important, as we often don’t take the opportunity to look up and ask ourselves if our autopilot manner of thinking is what we really want for ourselves.

Do I really want to be sacrificing the seasonal food, wine, beer, or the social outings? Or am I blindly following the societal programming I’ve been given that tells me I should constantly be moving towards a better physique?

If you answer these questions honestly, you may in-fact find that you don’t give a shit about changing your body right now, and that’s more than OK!

It’s tempting for us to feel ashamed when we’d rather eat and drink than lose weight, but that’s simply a product of societal conditioning. YOU get the make the choices you want for your body and your life, and you also get to change them whenever you feel necessary.

There’s nothing that says we have to be in a constant state of betterment of our bodies.

There isn’t anything that says we need to feel shame in response to wanting to change them either. My only suggestion is that you ask yourself if NOW is the time to do so. Is pursuing aesthetic goals really in alignment with your true desires at the moment?

If not—let it go. The opportunity to pick it back up will always be waiting for you if you so choose. In the meantime, go on and live your damn life and enjoy the wine, the festivities, and the heavy food to the fullest.

Can you allow the sh*t times to level you UP?

We’re so quick to wish the present moment away as our minds drift into the past or future. We may think we only do this during the bad times, which is understandable, but we put this into practice during the good times too when we’re not immersed in awareness.

During the good times, we begin to worry about the future and how it will pull us away from the enjoyment of the present moment.

I truly believe detachment is useful and necessary, as everything will eventually change, but we also don’t want to miss what’s right in front of us.

During the bad times, we want to wish them away and usher in the next comfortable season. Which is only natural—but is it useful? Do we grow from the cushy, warm, comforting times?

Without the bad, we aren’t able to relish in (or even experience) the good, and we aren’t able to develop into the humans we’re meant to be either.

Rather than lamenting about our current shitty situation, can we lean into it and choose to gain something from it?

My body, and often my mind, haven’t felt like my own for several months of this year. I believe a lot of this has to do with the Hashimoto’s and generally running myself into the ground, but I can’t say with absolute certainty.

Now that I’ve experienced vast improvements since May (I want to be sure of the consistent improvements before sharing what I did), I’m honestly grateful for the experience.

• I’m much more in tune with my body and my health.
• I know that it’s not worth it to sacrifice my health for the sake of ego, vanity, or the comfort of routine.
• I’ve slowed the fuck down. This is primarily physically, but also mentally.
• I received a lovely reminder of the practice of detachment from my appearance and physical capabilities.
• I’m better equipped to guide others who are struggling with a similar experience.
• I learned to lean on others and learned who really cared when I wasn’t my usual, positive self.
• I was reminded of how strong and capable I am.
• Probably most importantly, I was reminded that the shit times will come, they happen for our betterment, and they’ll pass.

To that last point, we may as well sit with whatever we’re experiencing and use it to our advantage, no?

If I reflect on the times that have really shaped me during my 29 years, they haven’t been the rosy times—although they carry great memories. I am the human I am because of the challenges, and as I learn to embrace them, there is so much less to fear.

I write this with the intention of reminding all of us, including myself, that every one of us experiences the dark, shitty times, and if we really dig deep and sit with the emotions of those experiences, it will be time and energy well spent.

If the darkness is going to come anyways, and it inevitably will for each and every one of us, we should soak up as much as we can from the experience while it lasts.

We can choose to level ourselves up as a result. How’s that for taking back our power?

Let your Identity Die If You Want to Reach Your Goals

The way we adhere to our unproductive and often-harmful narratives holds us back in so many ways.

• I don’t know how to control myself around food.
• I’m an obsessive eater.
• I’m not a disciplined person.
• I’m a control freak.
• I don’t know how to motivate myself.
• I’m too shy to talk to new people.
• I always give up on myself, so that will never work.
• I failed at that before, so I’m a failure.
• I’m closed-off, insecure, lazy, unpleasant, unworthy, un-loveable, [enter negative story].

We all define ourselves with the adjectives and words we have available, and we’re usually doing this unconsciously. Oftentimes, we’ve assumed these narratives from someone else—potentially someone we held in high regard.

Or perhaps we made a decision that wasn’t in alignment with our true, deeper values, such as lying, cheating, gossiping, failing to adhere to our responsibilities, or procrastinating, and we allow that one instance to define us. Every one of us has been here!

Rather than detaching from that one behavior, or even a series of behaviors, we begin to assume these behaviors as our identities. Rather than saying “I was emotional, zoned out, and over-ate.”, we tell ourselves, “I am an overeater”.

If we tell ourselves the latter, how do you think we’re going to act next time?

We’ll likely act in alignment with what we believe to be who we are.

We’d rather not experience the discomfort of misalignment with our “identities”, despite the harm we’re inflicting upon ourselves.

The truth is, we can reinvent ourselves at any time. Sure, there are characteristics and limitations that are hardwired into us (nature), but even then, I believe we can learn how to make subtle changes that enable us to use these to our benefit. Or at least temper them.

By adhering to these narrow definitions of ourselves, we immediately remove the possibility of experiencing personal growth and evolution.

I clung tightly to my identity as an obsessive and neurotic eater who couldn’t be trusted to make my own decisions around food, and all of my behaviors were consistent with this narrative.

By assuming this as my identity, I didn’t have to take responsibility for my own decisions, and I succumbed to this definition of WHO I was, rather than looking at my choices as simply behaviors. And behaviors are malleable.

It wasn’t until I took responsibility for the ability to write my own damn story that I was able to make changes counter to this notion of myself.

Slowly but surely, I grew to understand and accept that I was perpetuating my own suffering.

As another example, we may have made “practical” decisions at one point in our lives that truly felt right to us at the time (or didn’t, but we made them anyways), and before we know it, we and others have labeled ourselves as “practical”.

There isn’t a lot of wiggle room there, so what happens when our heart and soul are begging us to make decisions that are more unconventional? An identity crisis.

Begin to Detach

Instead of clinging to these words and stories, what would happen if we began to separate them from our identities?

There would be a world of possibilities! And a lot more personal responsibility. Rather than believing we are the victim of pre-determined traits and qualities, we would then be forced to reconcile with the fact that we’re actively playing a part in our stories. Initially uncomfortable, but also liberating AF.

How does one do this?

• Take an honest inventory and make a list of the words and narratives you use to define yourself.
• Ask yourself if you’re happy and in alignment with them. Are they serving you today and where you want to be in the future?
• Be radically honest about how you’re responsible for perpetuating the story. Taking responsibility for this can be frustrating and painful, but it’s worth it! (reminding myself here)
• Write down the behaviors you prefer to exhibit. ***We don’t want to get attached to another identity here—so focus on behaviors only.***
• Remind yourself that your identity is always malleable (and perhaps false altogether), and this is a constant process of reinvention.
• Put these new behaviors into action! This process takes time, but the belief that they can change is hugely transformational in itself.

In order to grow beyond our current struggles and our current versions of ourselves, we have to be willing to let our labels and narratives die. To let the former and current versions of ourselves die.  This can be scary as hell, but it can also the source of a new beginning whenever we’re ready and willing.

Can We Stop Complimenting Each Other on Our Bodies?

Most of us grew up witnessing women comment on other women’s bodies, and we see it all too often today as adults.

These usually were comments of adoration or jealousy after someone lost a few pounds or “toned up”, in addition to snarky remarks about those who gained weight or who didn’t fit their ideal of what a woman should look like.

These comments slowly solidify themselves in our subconscious, although few of us are aware of this as it’s taking place. We begin to understand that thinner is better, and gaining weight warrants mean-spirited discussions behind another woman’s back.

We (hopefully) understand that speaking negatively about another women’s body is inappropriate, mean-spirited, and is simply a reflection of the perpetrator’s own insecurities and hang-ups.

However, we rarely consider the consequences of compliments.

They seem innocent enough, right? In fact, many would argue that it’s better to pay a compliment to another rather than keep it to oneself. Why wouldn’t we make an effort to make someone feel better about themselves?

Because this is where many obsessions and eating disorders begin.

Many of the women I work with, in addition to those in my personal circle, lament on the compliments that kicked their hustle for the ideal body into high gear.

They began their health and/or weight loss journey as a result of their own preferences for themselves, and once the weight loss was in motion or achieved, the compliments rolled in.

“Oh my gosh, you look so good! What have you been doing?”

“You look so skinny—you look amazing.”

“You are body goals. I want a body like yours.”

These comments are often said before asking how anything else in the woman’s life is progressing, too. Talk about a hierarchy of values, no?

Panic then ensues. Did everyone think I looked bad before? Does everyone like me better now? Are they only interested in me because of the weight I lost?

I have to maintain this or I’m going to lose their interest/attention/love/acceptance!

If weight is gained, the compliments cease, and they may even be told not to worry—that they’ll lose the weight again soon.  And the notion that their worth is tied to their body is solidified.

They begin to believe that people only see, value, and love them for their appearance.

We Don’t Know the Whole Story

Furthermore, changes in weight can be the result of a multitude of scenarios, both positive and negative, including divorce, death, illness, stress, or an increase in happiness.

We don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors.

The woman who lost weight may be suffering tremendously inside due to circumstances that have nothing to do with her physical form, or she may be deep in the throes of an eating disorder.

Does complimenting her on her body send the right message in any of these situations? I don’t believe so.

We could argue that this is the responsibility of the recipient, and there is certainly some onus on each of us to filter both compliments and insults alike.

However, can we wrap our heads around the idea that our compliments to other women regarding their bodies may be doing more harm than good?

It’s a foggy line, to be sure, and I have been on both sides of the fence.

Today, I don’t comment on another woman’s body unless I have a deep and established relationship with her and am privy to the motivations and circumstances behind the changes.

The last thing I would ever want to do is further cement another’s belief that all I value her for is her body, or that the circumstances that led to these changes are less deserving of my attention than the result itself.

The vast majority of us have been conditioned to pay these compliments, and while they’re often well meaning, they may be doing more harm than good.

There are SO MANY more important things about each of us, and so many of us are just waiting for the space and nurturing environment to show them. Instead of commenting on a woman’s weight loss, ask her about her life.

See her as a human being first—a body second.

How is her family? Her relationships? Her career? Her travels and recent fun adventures? What has she learned or read recently? What is she struggling with?

Focusing on the qualities that truly matter in each of us prior to the superficial will do us all a world of good.

I'm Tall, White, Thin, Able-Bodied, and Privileged - Why Was I Still Obsessed with Food?

When sharing my story about my history with disordered eating and my obsession with food, exercise, and my body, I’ve received comments about the validity of my experience and whether it’s relatable to others.

I've been 15 lbs. lighter and heavier than my weight in this pic, and my obsession with food was the same regardless of the state of my body.

I am white, tall, thin, able-bodied, and young, so what could I have possibly been obsessing over?  Shouldn’t I just shut my mouth and be grateful for what I did/do have? These questions initially elicited a knee-jerk reaction of frustration and disappointment, but after giving them some thought, I have been able to see these questions through a different lens.

It’s important to recognize my position of privilege due to the aforementioned qualities and how others do not receive the same benefits, and there are ways in which these privileges manifest that I’m still not aware of. 

However, this does negate nor take away from my experience, and it doesn’t for anyone else either. Our relationships to food aren’t just about our bodies, and our experiences are valid simply by virtue of them occurring.

Where It All Began

When looking through the lens of my own experience, my obsession with my body began in response to circumstances many other women can relate to: I learned that my appearance is my most valuable currency, and in order to be lovable, I must look perfect as defined by society’s standards.

Furthermore, in a household of four children within four years and as a middle child who was relatively “easy” and calm, I yearned for attention and accolades. I believed that obtaining perfection (in every way—not just with my body) was the only way to achieve this.

I was 5’8” by the age of 13, so I was deeply insecure about my height. It made me different, and similarly to any teenager, this instantly made me resentful of the trait.

Additionally, as I progressed further into puberty, I looked to my dad and brothers to gauge appropriate portion sizes during mealtimes, and I steadily gained weight.

I didn’t feel any connection to my body at that point in time, so I overate processed foods regularly.  Was I unconscious with my choices? Absolutely. Did I demonize specific foods? Not yet.

Fast forward a few months,  and I was tall and now heavier than was natural for my frame, and I began to feel myself drifting farther and farther away from the ideal. The last thing I would have categorized myself as was “feminine” according to society’s standards.

Was I technically overweight? No, but I was heavier than felt comfortable to me, and I was certainly too heavy according to others in my immediate circle. And they made it known.

After listening to this unsolicited feedback and observing interactions around me, I slowly started putting the pieces together:

• A leaner body means more attention.
• More attention means an increased likelihood of receiving love, acceptance, and being seen.
• Less food and more exercise leads to a leaner body.
• Food is the barrier to feeling love, acceptance, and the ability to be seen.
• Food is the enemy.

This isn’t true of course, but this concept ruled my life for a decade. I viewed food as the gateway to my self-worth and value in the eyes of others, so it’s no great surprise that it became my obsession.

It was a love/hate relationship, and it was one that I so badly wanted to make peace with.

Obsession at Any Stage

My issues with food and my body started and continued due to feelings of unworthiness, and they didn’t let up for ten years regardless of the state of my body.

It didn't matter if I was 15 lbs. heavier than today at my heaviest or 15 lbs. lighter at my lightest—my obsession remained constant as I ebbed and flowed within those 30 lbs.

When I was leaner, I was obsessed with maintaining my body fat percentage for fear of losing my value as a person.  I was fully convinced that my friends and family truly loved me more when I looked that way, and my love of myself followed suit.

When I gained weight, which often occurred when I loosened the reigns and allowed myself to live my life in college, I felt a deep sense of shame about my appearance and the fact that I had “let myself go”. Even during these joyful and fun-filled times, I oscillated between periods of pure joy, panic, and fear of the looming outcome—more fat on my body.

There wasn’t a time when I wasn’t obsessing, and this was irrespective of the state of my body.

The Chase Never Ends

My obsession with food went far beyond my body, and the underlying reasons shifted based on the stage of life I was in, but the pressure to fix “just one more thing” was endless.

While I inhabited the qualities noted above, I was and still am far from the absurd standards of beauty women are held to.

I have cellulite, I’m not “curvy in all the right places”—whatever the fuck that means, I’m flat-chested, I’m taller than many men at 5’10.5”, I’m really pale with freckles, and the list goes on and on.

With the endless list of qualities we’re told to embody simultaneously, as if we come with ala carte options, there is always one more thing for us to obsess over. One more thing to hustle for. One more way to feel as though we’re inadequate.

We see women who are walking around with insanely low levels of body fat and continue to obsess over their meals and exercise routines, because the issue isn’t our bodies themselves—it’s our subscription to the stories we’ve been told about where our value is derived from and other underlying emotional distress we’re often masking (such as my staunch subscription to perfectionism).

Others may include the need for control, binging to numb our emotions and subsequently starving to undo the “damage”, seeking love and attention, lack of self-worth and self-esteem, deflecting from other areas of our lives that are calling for our attention (like hating our job or an unhappy relationship), lack of authenticity in our lives, etc.

Our Bodies Don’t Determine Our Relationships with Food

I have worked with overweight and thin women, all of whom are constantly obsessing over every morsel of food. While their motivations can be different, their relationships with food are very similar.

To assume we know someone else’s story based on their appearance is short-sited, and it furthers the notion that we are defined by the way we look.

Lean women may be labeled as lucky and perfect, despite deep pain they may be masking, and overweight women are often labeled as lazy, despite the care they may show for their bodies.

This contributes to the problem on a larger scale, and it can also be deeply harmful to the individual.

It doesn’t serve us look to our appearance or those of others to determine what someone’s relationship with food “should” look like or assume we know what is true.

When we “should” each other, we miss the opportunity to connect with other women on the deep level we’re all seeking, and we collectively take a step back.

We all have a right to our story, our experiences, and our emotions, simply by virtue of them being our own, and we can take ownership of them while simultaneously recognizing our privilege and seeking to learning about the experiences of women in marginalized bodies.

This is a new-to-me conversation, so I welcome all feedback in an effort to learn more!